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thumbup The Partial Rapture
« Thread started on: Sep 12th, 2009, 04:32am »

The main purpose of this message board is to educate the Church of God on the teachings of the Partial Rapture (once called by me, The Conditional Rapture), and to provide a place where Partial Rapturist can congregate, discuss, and share their different opinions, as all do not share the same views.

From the book of Hebrews, chapter nine verses 27 & 28
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This is the only passage in the scripture, (to my knowledge) that makes mention of "the second appearance" of the Lord Jesus Christ, making this verse a Rapture passage as it does not agree with the Glorious Appearing of the Messiah at the end of The Great Tribulation as recorded by John in Revelation.

Revelation 1:7
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The Church is engaged or "espoused" to Christ at the present time, throughout the Church Age, as recorded by the following passage. Paul's fear, as recorded in the third verse, was that the Church would (as it has) corrupted itself.

2 Corinthians 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

In the letters to the seven Churches of Revelation, to the Church of Thyatira, it is explained how the Church will corrupt itself in the last days.

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #1 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 06:58am »

i have heard of the partial rapture. it sites not all of the church is going in the first rapture. are there many teachings (scriptures) that support this view besides the few i have seen on your message board. is there a publication of some sort that could explain these views. jack.
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #2 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 07:10am »

Absolutely, to both questions. There are many scriptures that teach, support, suggest, and even whole passages that illustrate the Partial Rapture. I hope and pray to share much of that information with all who are interested in the future as this message board is accessed and used.

I only refer to it as a "theory" in my publication : The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm, published by Xulon Press, in respect to all members of the church who reject its teachings. I have even been attacked by my fellow brethren for my beliefs in and teachings of it.

There are many passages that confirm the Partial Rapture. The most common arguement that sceptics try to use against The Partial Rapture Theory is that God would not separate the church. But the scripture records in Matthew, in order to confirm, that God separated the Old Testament saints into two groups after the resurrection of our Lord by the resurrection of the Old Testament saints, returning them back to physical life.

My question to them is, what would prevent him from doing so with the New Testament saints.

(That event, half of which is recorded in the gospel of Matthew ch 27 vs 52 & 53, the other in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians ch 4 vs 8 - 10, is actually a picture of the Partial Rapture.)

I will add a thread in the Partial Rapture Forum Board covering that event in the next 24 hours.

1st Update : That thread has been completed.
It is entitled : The Old Testament Saints (Divine Exclusion).

2nd Update : Further information explaining our position on the Partial Rapture was added to this same board under the three sequential posts, The Partial Rapture Explained, Parts 1 through 3.
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #3 on: Jan 8th, 2010, 8:27pm »

Hello Rev J. W.
The Partial Rapture, will it happen after or before the Sun and Moon signs. The Moon turning to blood and the Sun 1/3 blackened as in Luke 21 or is this two separate events spoken by Jesus

Thank You
Billy
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #4 on: Jan 9th, 2010, 05:02am »

on Jan 8th, 2010, 8:27pm, billy wrote:
Hello Rev J. W.
The Partial Rapture, will it happen after or before the Sun and Moon signs. The Moon turning to blood and the Sun 1/3 blackened as in Luke 21 or is this two separate events spoken by Jesus

Thank You
Billy


The signs of which you speak take place during and toward the end of the great tribulation. The Rapture will (in essence) begin or introduce the great tribulation, so it will take place before.

In the Olivet Discourse, (Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) Jesus gives a semi-detailed account (Revelation is that record in greater detail) of The Great Tribulation in which the signs occur. They will begin on an intermediate scale of intensity, then escalate exponentially.

Acts 2:20
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

The great and notable day spoken of in this passage (which is in reference to the prophet Daniel) is the return of Jesus in power and great glory at the end of the great tribulation. The Rapture was a mystery to the Old Testament saints and was not introduced until the ministry of Jesus, approximately three years before his crucifixtion and death which activated the New Covenant the God had established through the Old.

Luke 21:28
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The Moon turning to blood and the Sun 1/3 blackened are signs given just before Jesus returns the final or third time, which is the coming of the Lord that the entire world will witness, not just the church or The Bride.

Revelation 1:7
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The Rapture is his second appearance, that only those that will experience it will observe take place, all obedient Christians who are in fellowship with the Triune God, making them members of The Bride of Christ.

Hebrews 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #5 on: Jan 22nd, 2010, 1:07pm »

Bro. Chip,

I don't know if you have heard of David Flynn or Tom Horn, but they share knowledge about what they have learned regarding the timing of the Great Tribulation starting at 12/21/2012.

I know you don't want to get into the date setting issue.

But, do you think that the advanced sciences developed by man being taught by fallen angels may be right in thier interpretation of the equinox of the universe causing the events described in the great tribulation? Which would be the timing of God's destruction or judgement written in Revelations ultimately he did it because he created the universe.

I hope this question came out right... huh

God Bless,
Rusty

These theories are outside the box of normal bible study where you would have to look at the occults beliefs.
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #6 on: Jan 22nd, 2010, 6:02pm »

on Jan 22nd, 2010, 1:07pm, cruxty wrote:
Bro. Chip,
I don't know if you have heard of David Flynn or Tom Horn, but they share knowledge about what they have learned regarding the timing of the Great Tribulation starting at 12/21/2012.
I know you don't want to get into the date setting issue.
But, do you think that the advanced sciences developed by man being taught by fallen angels may be right in thier interpretation of the equinox of the universe causing the events described in the great tribulation? Which would be the timing of God's destruction or judgement written in Revelations ultimately he did it because he created the universe.

I hope this question came out right... huh

God Bless,
Rusty

These theories are outside the box of normal bible study where you would have to look at the occults beliefs.


"Outside the box" is what this Forum is all about. It was the purpose for which this Forum was created. Anyone can ask anything in the appropriate thread.

As for date setting, I as a rule do not directly engage in the debate. I have not heard of Flynn, but the name Tom Horn is familiar to me somehow, although I cannot place why.

I believe, but do not include in my Rapture teachings, that the Bride will be aware of "the window" (or season) if you will, of the Rapture. I have my own ideas that I keep separated from the Partial Rapture debate and teachings because much of my "understanding" is so far removed from traditional views to begin with.

I will however answer questions of this nature in the Fringe Topics Category thread if anyone is interested. (Although I did not anticipate this coming up). Feel free to create a thread in that section of the Forum on any topic you wish.

UPDATE : I have created a "Rapture Timing" board in the "Fringe Topic" Category. Enjoy !!
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #7 on: Feb 13th, 2010, 11:55am »

Hello Rev J.W.

I asked a question in another thread that was related to the partial rapture but I did not address the thought to the first resurrection. It seems to me that the bride will not pre-seed the the first resurrection. Now if this is the Great tribulation Christians in REV 20: 4-7 you have a problem with timing, do you not. Or where in the scriptures is it clear that the bride is taken before the first resurrection.

Thessalonians 1:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 20:4-7
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

This is a Great study
Thank You
Billy
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #8 on: Feb 14th, 2010, 05:31am »

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelations 20 verses 1-3 is a description of what will take place at the beginning of the Millennium. satan will be bound during the thousand year reign unable to tempt mankind to disobey God. With no temptation in the world during that time,,, Isaiah 11:5-9

Isaiah 11:5-9
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the thangatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Then John is shown,,,

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

,,, the indivduals that were martyred during the great tribulation for their faith in Jesus.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Then John explains that all others who are not included in this resurrection will not be resurrected until after the thousand years are completed. This will include the children of "the kingdom" (from the parable of the tares being separated from the wheat).

This is the first resurrection. (pointing back to the resurrection of the tribulation saints.)

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,

"Hath part", is a description of the "phases" in which the resurrection will occur, with the inclusion of each. "The Resurrection" began with Jesus himself roughly 2000 years ago. The next phase will be "The Rapture" before the great tribulation, then the tribulation saints who will lose their lives during the first half of the Great Tribulation will be raised between the fifth and seventh seals. The second death will have no power on anyone who is included in any phase of the "first" resurrection.

but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Pointing again to the tribulation saints, of which (from one phase) are used as subject for the discussion. There are several resurrections included in the one "first resurrection."

1 Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #9 on: Feb 14th, 2010, 10:22am »

Hello Rev J.W.
Do you have a chart, if not I think it would be helpful. A map of the events to your study

Just a thought

Billy
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #10 on: Feb 15th, 2010, 05:09am »

That is an excellent idea. One which has been thought on and talked about quite a few times. We actually do have a time table map of the events concerning our teachings on a dry erasable board at Courtland Baptist Church. Unfortunately, there is only so much you can get on a board, and therefore it can get quite cluttered quickly.

We have discussed having someone build us a computer program model or even a power point presentation. But our finances (or more accurately, the lack thereof at the moment) are preventing this from being placed into production. We also have plans for a web site that will link to this message board, but again this is still in the planning stages, and in our future (Lord Willing, and he tarries).
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #11 on: Feb 17th, 2010, 5:23pm »

Hello Rev. J.W.
How can you by scripture explain these verses in Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27


31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


As you know, the Pre-wrathers view this as the Rapture. I think the word elect is the key. Who are the elect......Are they Christians or Israel or the 144,000

Thanks
Billy
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #12 on: Feb 17th, 2010, 5:57pm »

on Feb 17th, 2010, 5:23pm, billy wrote:
Hello Rev. J.W.
How can you by scripture explain these verses in Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27


31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


As you know, the Pre-wrathers view this as the Rapture. I think the word elect is the key. Who are the elect......Are they Christians or Israel or the 144,000

Thanks
Billy


First, this category, board and the threads to follow are for the discussion of The Partial Rapture. Not for the debate of The Rapture view.

Debate on the Rapture is welcome only in the category,,

The Rapture and its vaious views (or the absence of) THE DEBATE BOARDS

And the board,,

The Pre-Trib Rapture

State your question there in whatever form you wish, and I will be happy to answer any questions, or even debate the issue.

Debate of the Rapture is frowned upon at best on most Christian Message Boards so I built this Forum for that distinct purpose, but in a manner (hopefully) that would invite such debate between brothers and sisters in Christ in the friendliest atmosphere possible. Whenever anyone enters a board in the "views" category, it is understood debate will be present. If one wishes not to be exposed to the debate,,, don't enter,, its as simple as that. (Kinda like watching TV. Don't like the program? Change the channel, or turn the TV off.)

Here, The Pre-Trib Rapture is a given, since the subject of this category, board and thread is the Partial Rapture and its teachings. In short, this is a "discussion" thread on the Partial Rapture, not a debate forum.

NOTE: I have been banned by several message boards for even mentioning the Partial Rapture or for attempting to discuss the timing of the Rapture. No one will be banned here for "ANY" genuine debating as long as they post in the appropriate category, board and thread.

I repeat : The very question you ask is the purpose for which this message board exists. The only thing I will not allow here is,,,

The Rules

« Thread started on: Sep 11th, 2009, 5:33pm »
There are very few rules here.

1.
NO attacks on the messenger. Such will not be tolerated. Discuss (in debate format) the subject of the post. If or when any animosity is shown toward another member, you have proven yourself to have lost the ability to argue your point. Though your position may be valid and your view correct, your attention being shifted from the subject of the post to your opponent is declaration of you having lost the debate.

3.
All beliefs and views are welcome, (within Dispensational Pre-millennialism) but only in the appropriate threads if they are in distinct contrast with our main theme, The Conditional or Partial Rapture. All views in regard to the Return of Christ outside the purpose of this message board, (Pre-Trib Only, Mid-Trib, Pre-Wrath, Post-Trib) are to remain civil and courteous when any member enters the thread of an opposing view, and then only to enquire and discuss (within the debate format, of course).

6.
The accusation,
“You are proclaiming your view as The Word of God” or
“Your opinion is being expressed as, thus saith the Lord” will not be tolerated.

I say again, the accusation will not be tolerated.

Every believer is expressing their view as they understand the scripture to explain their own belief. It should be understood by each member of this message board that when a person is expressing themselves in post, it is their “opinion” they are sharing from all others perspective, but the poster is doing so from the position of believing the information as the truth, such as they have learned it from The Word.
It is very difficult to fully explain oneself, when adamant about a given topic, without the appearance of a “holier than thou” attitude. On this board, (within an undefined limit, set by yours truly) it will be tolerated.
THERE IS NO DEBATE ON THIS ISSUE. Quite frankly, If you can’t play, you can’t stay.
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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #13 on: Feb 18th, 2010, 06:40am »

Hello Rev J.W.
I guess I should have not used the word "Pre-wrathers" I was not debating

I'll ask the question again in this way

How can you by scripture explain these verses in Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 and where it sits in the partial rapture or not


31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Who are they? the elect......are they Christians or Israel or the 144,000. How is the elect different from the bride and where dose these verses sit in the time line to the partial rapture

Many get "CONFUSED" on these verses, confused and debating are to different meanings

Sorry if I led you to think I was debating the view, not so

Thank you

Billy

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xx Re: The Partial Rapture
« Reply #14 on: Feb 18th, 2010, 5:21pm »

My apologies. The structure of your question struck me as "defend your position", which is most acceptable in "The Views" category.

And the use of the term "Pre-Wrath" is fine if that is the position from which you are posing your question. I pray there will be very little "judgmentalism" on my message board.

In short, the elect of the passages mentioned are Israel. At the Glorious Appearing when Jesus returns in power and great glory he will send his angels to gather them from the four corners of the earth (and from one end of heaven to the other) in order to return each of the remnant back to Jerusalem.

But, there will be no angels doing the gathering for him during the Rapture since the individual being gathered is the Bride of Christ and can only be retrieved by the BrideGroom himself.

I understand the Mid-Trib, Pre-Wrath and Post-Trib views believe this to be the Rapture, but the Rapture is a vertical event (from the earth to Jesus in the air) and this gathering is horizontal (from the four corners of the globe to the land of Israel, or Jersalem itself).

All views except the Partial Rapture overlook one critical point. The Rapture cannot take place any time after the seventh seal is broken. There are no "church members" on the earth at that time for it to occur for. The only believers on earth during the first half of the great tribulation are the tribulation saints (mostly gentiles). They are seen under the altar as souls having been martyred for their faith. At that time they are told they must wait until their fellow servants and also their brethren to be killed as they were.

In the next chapter of Revelation we see them resurrected standing before the throne. If this is true as it states, the ones spoken of "to be killed as the first were" has taken place. There are no non-Israeli believers on earth during the great tribulation beyond the seventh seal. So the elect at the end of the great tribulation have to be Israel through the process of elimination, if nothing else.

Revelation 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

These individuals could not have been saved due to the witness of the 144000 as Pre-Trib believes, since the 144000 are not sealed until after the sixth seal at the beginning of chapter seven. Then between the opening of the sixth and seventh seal we see this same company resurrected and standing before the throne.

Revelation 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Then one of the elders of heaven explains to John who this company is.

Revelation 7:13-14
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The elder explains these individuals came out of "Great Tribulation" (the first half of the seven year great tribulation period). The robes they wear, some wore into the great tribulation. Their robes were soiled at the time of The Rapture resulting in their rejection (or divorce) by their BrideGroom (2nd Thess. 2) and were washed clean during the first half of The Great Tribulation Period through their martyrdom. They were unprepared for the Rapture at the beginning of the Great Tribulation which was the reason for their appearance inside this time in the first place.
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