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xx Setting dates for the Rapture
« Thread started on: Jan 22nd, 2010, 6:45pm »

huh cruxty said,,,

Bro. Chip,

I don't know if you have heard of David Flynn or Tom Horn, but they share knowledge about what they have learned regarding the timing of the Great Tribulation starting at 12/21/2012.

I know you don't want to get into the date setting issue.

But, do you think that the advanced sciences developed by man being taught by fallen angels may be right in thier interpretation of the equinox of the universe causing the events described in the great tribulation? Which would be the timing of God's destruction or judgement written in Revelations ultimately he did it because he created the universe.

I hope this question came out right...

God Bless,
Rusty

These theories are outside the box of normal bible study where you would have to look at the occults beliefs.
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2010, 11:20am by revjwwhitejr@aol.com » User IP Logged

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xx Re: The Timing of The Rapture
« Reply #1 on: Jan 22nd, 2010, 7:04pm »

Well, lets see. As I said, I do not engage in this topic as a rule, but I do have thoughts regarding the subject. The scripture says for us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. Now most people would quicky assume that to have nothing to do with the topic of date setting, and stricly speaking it in fact does not, at least directly. But, the passage in which this teaching appears becomes very important to the topic at hand if one is intent in studying the whole of scripture and not what denominations, or preachers, or teachers attempt to confine us to. Let's read the passage all the way through.

Hebrews 10:25
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

If one takes the scripture literally, and at face value (as I believe I do) and studies every phrase as if it has a purpose in the verse or passage (again, as I do) then the phrase "as ye see the day approaching" must have some meaning in the literal sense. It has a purpose beyond that of "just taking up space".

I believe a knowledgable Bride, looking continually for and anticipating the arrival of her BrideGroom, engrossed within a yearning for herself to be carried away to the Father house, is also going to be watching the events around herself in the physical world as well, looking for a clue to the actual timing of the event.

In addition, if the Bride is well versed in the Scripture (as she should be) she may have already attained a knowledge (if only subconsciously) of at least "the window" within which that event will occur. The scripture does say, no one knows the day or the hour, but it also says repeatedly that we should be paying attention to the "signs of the times", just as Israel should have known the day of her visitation.

Once this discussion begins, someone is invariably going to mention the subject of "imminence, or imminent". Bring your scripture when you do.
« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2010, 06:34am by revjwwhitejr@aol.com » User IP Logged

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xx Re: The Timing of The Rapture
« Reply #2 on: Jan 23rd, 2010, 11:21am »

I will not bring out the "Immenent" issue, but I do believe we have but a short time.

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xx Re: The Timing of The Rapture
« Reply #3 on: Jan 23rd, 2010, 1:29pm »

on Jan 23rd, 2010, 11:21am, cruxty wrote:
I will not bring out the "Immenent" issue, but I do believe we have but a short time.


I do not completely disagree with that statement as the scripture speaks of it or uses the term. But, I also believe the majority of the church does not understand the immement return of the Lord.

I will explain on my next post, as I have two family functions to attend right now.
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xx Re: Setting dates for the Rapture
« Reply #4 on: Jan 24th, 2010, 12:14pm »

Concerning my views of the "imminent" return of the Lord, Jesus himself gave several examples that would simulate the return of the son of man. He said it would be like a "lord" traveling to a far country, and his servants not being aware of when he would return. They were instructed to keep watch "at all times" so that they would not be caught unaware upon his return.

But, I believe this illustration to be taken in its entirety. I have used this next illustration many times in the past. (It is represented in the area that I live. Queen City / Atlanta, that border one another, are 20 miles from Texarkana.)

If I tell someone in Atlanta I am going to the far side of Texarkana Arkansas, and when I return they should be ready to receive what it was I went for, most people do not take into account there is a time within the description that I will not be back. It would take the average traveler a minimum of 20 minutes to get there, and 20 minutes to return. Figuring in any known time delay for the purpose of the trip (say 10 minutes), that gives the person waiting on my return a 50 minute "window" of time that they "know" I can not return in. After which I could return "at any moment".

I believe this is the illustration Jesus was imputing to the Church. I have found no passage in the scripture which actually teaches the "at any moment" from the time of the gospels, or the letters of Paul, only passages that document the return of Jesus and that we should be "at work in his service" and ready for that return in each generation, and teaching the next the same. The "spirit" of anticipation should have been (and be) alive in each individual believer throughout the entire church age, but especially the last generation. It being the one in which the event will surely occur.

These next statements are not scriptural, but my own opinion from my own observations.

The condition of the world at present does not resemble the world I see described in Revelation just prior to the Great Tribulation. I do not believe in the "at any moment" return of the Lord. I believe he will return, and prior to the Great Tribulation. But it will not be today. (Which is absurd to many believers, blasphemous to others.) Conditions can change very quickly (as we have seen in recent years, sometimes overnight) and the elements could be put in place in a very short span of time. But, at the same time, I believe they must.

That is why I believe the Bride (when well versed with the teachings of the End of Days) will be aware of the "window" in which the Lord Jesus will appear "the second time". She will not know the exact moment, (Just as Noah and his family inside the Ark) but will sense the arrival through understanding (and the presence of the Holy Spirit).

Hebrews 10:25
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2010, 05:57am by revjwwhitejr@aol.com » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Setting dates for the Rapture
« Reply #5 on: Jan 25th, 2010, 1:42pm »

Bro. Chip said,,,
The condition of the world at present does not resemble the world I see described in Revelation just prior to the Great Tribulation. I do not believe in the "at any moment" return of the Lord. I believe he will return, and prior to the Great Tribulation. But it will not be today. (Which is absurd to many believers, blasphemous to others.) Conditions can change very quickly (as we have seen in recent years, sometimes overnight) and the elements could be put in place in a very short span of time. But, at the same time, I believe they must.

What is the verse in Revelation that does describe the world before the bride is taken?
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2010, 4:40pm by revjwwhitejr@aol.com » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Setting dates for the Rapture
« Reply #6 on: Jan 25th, 2010, 4:40pm »

What I said was, "The condition of the world at present does not resemble the world I see described in Revelation just prior to the Great Tribulation." This is one of the few areas of "teachings" I am not dogmatic about convincing others of. This could be considered (and in truth is) "my opinion".

The three Olivet Discourses, (Matt 24, Mark 13, & Luke 21) and Revelation from chapters 4 through 18 describe a world in turmoil, largely lawless, unjust and in which the Christian will be dispised and hated by the rest of the world. (Much like the time of the Judges, when every man did what was right in his own eyes. Although during The Great Tribulation, everyone will be doing what is right by the standard set by the eye of the anti-christ.) Even Israel will fail to stand with Christians, inspite of Christians largely standing with Israel through the end of the Church age.

Our world now, as bad as it is, does not resemble that world. I believe it will get so bad that most Pre-Tribulationists will have second thoughts about The Rapture itself. (So, sad! Some will even be convinced we are inside the Great Tribulation before it gets here.)

Let's just say, I believe the Church will witness events that will appear to be great tribulation events, (that is how bad it will get) before the great tribulation arrives. The citizenry of the United States will lose many of our freedoms for example, before The Rapture takes place. Things of that nature are in works now, but they have not been allowed to take place.

This is my opinion, (on this one issue) based on the descriptions given to us in the Olivet Discourse & the Book of Revelation.

One other point of interest, posted by Tom Bionic of FutureQuake, on another Board.

Monday, December 21, 2009

Supreme Court Guts Due Process! From Naked Capitalism:
Reader Walter passed along this distressing sighting from Chris Floyd’s blog. American civil liberties were gutted last week, and the media failed to take note of it.

The development? If the president or one of his subordinates declares someone to be an “enemy combatant” (the 21st century version of “enemy of the state”) he is denied any protection of the law. So any trouble-maker (which means anyone) can be whisked away, incarcerated, tortured, “disappeared,” you name it.

Floyd’s commentary:
After hearing passionate arguments from the Obama Administration, the Supreme Court acquiesced to the president’s fervent request and, in a one-line ruling, let stand a lower court decision that declared torture an ordinary, expected consequence of military detention, while introducing a shocking new precedent for all future courts to follow: anyone who is arbitrarily declared a “suspected enemy combatant” by the president or his designated minions is no longer a “person.”

They will simply cease to exist as a legal entity. They will have no inherent rights, no human rights, no legal standing whatsoever — save whatever modicum of process the government arbitrarily deigns to grant them from time to time, with its ever-shifting tribunals and show trials.

It is hard to overstate the significance of this horrid decision. The fact that the Supreme Court authorized this land grab says we no longer have an independent judiciary, that the Supreme Court itself is gutting the protections supposedly provided by the legal system.

Per Floyd:
In fact, our most august defenders of the Constitution did not have to exert themselves in the slightest to eviscerate not merely 220 years of Constitutional jurisprudence but also centuries of agonizing effort to lift civilization a few inches out of the blood-soaked mire that is our common human legacy. They just had to write a single sentence.

Now Floyd saw this mainly as an issue of the treatment of enemy combatants and Obama hypocrisy about torture, which is bad enough:

The Constitution is clear: no person can be held without due process; no person can be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. And the U.S. law on torture of any kind is crystal clear: it is forbidden, categorically, even in time of “national emergency.” And the instigation of torture is, under U.S. law, a capital crime. No person can be tortured, at any time, for any reason, and there are no immunities whatsoever for torture offered anywhere in the law.

And yet this is what Barack Obama — who, we are told incessantly, is a super-brilliant Constitutional lawyer — has been arguing in case after case since becoming president: Torturers are immune from prosecution; those who ordered torture are immune from prosecution….let’s be absolutely clear: Barack Obama has taken the freely chosen, public, formal stand — in court — that there is nothing wrong with any of these activities.
Yves here. The implications are FAR worse. Anyone can be stripped, with NO RECOURSE, of all their legal rights on a Presidential say so. Readers in the US no longer have any security under the law.

Roman citizens enjoyed a right to a trial, a right of appeal, and could not be tortured, whipped, or executed except if found guilty of treason, and anyone charged with treason could demand a trial in Rome. We have regressed more than 2000 years with this appalling ruling.

Posted by Tom Bionic at 9:59 AM
« Last Edit: Aug 4th, 2010, 5:31pm by revjwwhitejr@aol.com » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Setting dates for the Rapture
« Reply #7 on: Feb 1st, 2010, 5:51pm »

New Date setter revealed himself again!

Biblical Scholar's Date for Rapture: May 21, 2011

January 1, 2010
Justin Berton, Chronicle Staff Writer
San Francisco Chronicle

Harold Camping lets out a hearty chuckle when he considers the people who believe the world will end in 2012.

"That date has not one stitch of biblical authority," Camping says from the Oakland office where he runs Family Radio, an evangelical station that reaches listeners around the world. "It's like a fairy tale."

Photo: Former civil engineer Harold Camping of Oakland, who runs Family Radio, has studied the Bible for almost 70 years. (Lance Iversen / The Chronicle)

The real date for the end of times, he says, is in 2011.

The Mayans and the recent Hollywood movie "2012" have put the apocalypse in the popular mind this year, but Camping has been at this business for a long time. And while Armageddon is pop science or big-screen entertainment to many, Camping has followers from the Bay Area to China.

Camping, 88, has scrutinized the Bible for almost 70 years and says he has developed a mathematical system to interpret prophecies hidden within the Good Book. One night a few years ago, Camping, a civil engineer by trade, crunched the numbers and was stunned at what he'd found: The world will end May 21, 2011.

This is not the first time Camping has made a bold prediction about Judgment Day.

On Sept. 6, 1994, dozens of Camping's believers gathered inside Alameda's Veterans Memorial Building to await the return of Christ, an event Camping had promised for two years. Followers dressed children in their Sunday best and held Bibles open-faced toward heaven.

But the world did not end. Camping allowed that he may have made a mathematical error. He spent the next decade running new calculations, as well as overseeing a media company that has grown significantly in size and reach.

"We are now translated into 48 languages and have been transmitting into China on an AM station without getting jammed once," Camping said. "How can that happen without God's mercy?"

His office is flanked by satellite dishes in the parking lot that transmit his talk show, "Open Forum." In the Bay Area, he's heard on 610 AM, KEAR. Camping says his company owns about 55 stations in the United States alone, and that his message arrives on every continent.

'I'm looking forward to it'

Employees at the Oakland office run printing presses that publish Camping's pamphlets and books, and some wear T-shirts that read, "May 21, 2011." They're happy to talk about the day they believe their souls will be retrieved by Christ.

"I'm looking forward to it," said Ted Solomon, 60, who started listening to Camping in 1997. He's worked at Family Radio since 2004, making sure international translators properly dictate Camping's sermons.

"This world may have had an attraction to me at one time," Solomon said. "But now it's definitely lost its appeal."

Camping is a frail-looking man, and his voice is low and deep, but it can rise to dramatic peaks with a preacher's flair.

As a young man, he owned an East Bay construction business but longed to work as a servant of God. So he hit the books.

"Because I was an engineer, I was very interested in the numbers," he said. "I'd wonder, 'Why did God put this number in, or that number in?' It was not a question of unbelief, it was a question of, 'There must be a reason for it.' "

Code-breaking phenomenon

Camping is not the only man to see truths in the Bible hidden in the numbers. In the late 1990s, a code-breaking phenomenon took off, led by "The Bible Code," written by former Washington Post journalist Michael Drosnin.

Drosnin developed a technique that revealed prophecies within the Bible's text. A handful of biblical scholars have supported Drosnin's theory, lending it an air of legitimacy, and just as many scholars have decried it as farce.

One of Drosnin's more well-known findings is that a meteor will strike Earth in 2012, the same year some people believe the Mayan calendar marks the end of times, and the same year the "2012" action movie surmised the Earth's crust will destabilize and kill most humans.

Meaning in numbers

By Camping's understanding, the Bible was dictated by God and every word and number carries a spiritual significance. He noticed that particular numbers appeared in the Bible at the same time particular themes are discussed.

The number 5, Camping concluded, equals "atonement." Ten is "completeness." Seventeen means "heaven." Camping patiently explained how he reached his conclusion for May 21, 2011.

"Christ hung on the cross April 1, 33 A.D.," he began. "Now go to April 1 of 2011 A.D., and that's 1,978 years."

Camping then multiplied 1,978 by 365.2422 days - the number of days in each solar year, not to be confused with a calendar year.

Next, Camping noted that April 1 to May 21 encompasses 51 days. Add 51 to the sum of previous multiplication total, and it equals 722,500.

Camping realized that (5 x 10 x 17) x (5 x 10 x 17) = 722,500.

Or put into words: (Atonement x Completeness x Heaven), squared.

"Five times 10 times 17 is telling you a story," Camping said. "It's the story from the time Christ made payment for your sins until you're completely saved.

"I tell ya, I just about fell off my chair when I realized that," Camping said.

James Kreuger, author of "Secrets of the Apocalypse - Revealed," has been studying the end of times for 40 years and is familiar with Camping's work. While Kreuger agrees that the rapture is indeed coming, he disputes Camping's method.

"For all his learning, Camping makes a classic beginner's mistake when he sets a date for Christ's return," Kreuger wrote in an e-mail. "Jesus himself said in Matthew 24:36, 'Of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only.' "

'It is going to happen'

Camping's believers will have none of it.

Rick LaCasse, who attended the September 1994 service in Alameda, said that 15 years later, his faith in Camping has only strengthened.

"Evidently, he was wrong," LaCasse allowed, "but this time it is going to happen. There was some doubt last time, but we didn't have any proofs. This time we do."

Would his opinion of Camping change if May 21, 2011, ended without incident?

"I can't even think like that," LaCasse said. "Everything is too positive right now. There's too little time to think like that."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fc%2Fa%2F2010%2F01%2F01%2FBA8V1AV589.DTL&%3Btsp=1&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+C2C-InTheNews+%28Feed+-+Coast+to+Coast+-+In+the+News%29

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xx Re: Setting dates for the Rapture
« Reply #8 on: Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:36am »

This is a very interesting post. I look forward to seeing and reading any more like it. But "my prediction" (tongue in cheek) is that 2011 will pass without incident. Or at least, without the incident of The Rapture. To my great dismay.
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xx Re: Setting dates for the Rapture
« Reply #9 on: May 4th, 2010, 2:12pm »

http://www.waytozion.org/video/monteglc%204-15-10.asf

More date setting...
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xx Re: Setting dates for the Rapture
« Reply #10 on: Jun 12th, 2010, 10:44am »

I'm not so sure this is date setting exactly. I listened to this video and learned much, especially regarding the "feast of weeks" and the "feast of tabernacles".
The understanding of the counting of weeks, especially 62 weeks and 7 weeks explained by Monte Judah from the Lion and Lamb Ministeries is a very clear teaching. This who video is filled with information about how God deals with His people who are in disobedience, and those who mock His blessings. I especially liked Monte's reference to "do you want to stay in Egypt or go to the promised land?"

So many people rant about the Christians who believe in the Rapture (any timing interpretation), they themselves being Christians, example at hand, Steve Quayle, and with anger seeing these Christians as wanting to do nothing but sit around until they are taken up. I am offended by this attitude. Whether or not there is a "rapture", there is no excuse for this attitude coming from brothers and sisters in the Lord.

My point in saying the above is that when you listen to the teaching regarding "feasts" and God's love and mercy toward His people, and that He, I repeat, HE, will preserve His people in tribulation, then why would your focus be on the preservation of yourself and your loved ones? I understand being prepared for a crisis, but being armed and ready to shoot anyone who would come against you is not trusting the God who will preserve you. We need to be prepared to share the Word and be "salt and light", not demonstrate fear of our fleshly demise.

Whether or not the rapture , pretrib, partial rapture, etc. occurs, our God will preserve us. We have been bought by the Blood of Christ, are adopted into His family, and will be part of the Kingdom when it comes. I praise and thank God for that and my time now is being spent praying for the unsaved.

I truly enjoyed this video, thanks Cruxty grin for posting it as I would not have seen it except for your post.
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xx Re: Setting dates for the Rapture
« Reply #11 on: Jun 24th, 2010, 8:17pm »

Thanks Chalford!

I agree with you whole heartedly. I think we are what is keeping TPTB from doing all the can against us as well. We must be taken out of the way first I believe before the spirit of iniquity can prevail.

I just hope the toxins that will ensurp us will not harm us or that we are taken before we are slaughtered by there unorthodox culling of 1/3.

I believe that we will be taken up soon, but I am waiting for Bro. Chips Revelation timeline to confirm this. I believe we are getting near the time in which he states will fit the description of life as we know it changing so dramatically that the come upance must occur or no flesh will be left, but for the elects sake the time will be shortened.

It hurts me when Steve Quayle makes those statements against us, when Hawk makes his statements, and when Alex Jones puts us down for believing in the Pre-Trib come upance.

I wonder if the Lord will take them. I assume they are watching but not for the come upance. They are watching for Gog Magog.
« Last Edit: Aug 4th, 2010, 5:34pm by revjwwhitejr@aol.com » User IP Logged

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